True story: in med school, I was taught that the suicide increase is proof that antidepressants work! Honest to goodness this was the reasoning: really depressed people are so depressed they can’t even get out of bed, but once they start taking antidepressants they start feeling good enough that they have enough energy/initiative to start planning their suicide. I promise I’m not making that up. To my infinite shame, I totally bought it, too, I remember just accepting that as we were taught it (I was in med school 2010-2014, so not that long ago). The question I now wish I had asked: “so, professor, if *some* people killing themselves is proof of how well antidepressants work, would a drug causing a 100% suicide rate be the most successful antidepressant ever?”
That’s crazy. It seems to me that one of the qualities a medical student requires is a lack of critical thinking and a willingness to swallow unfounded assertions whole.
I once went to a sleep specialist for insomnia. He wanted to prescribe antidepressants. I asked how they worked. He sighed and said part of it is the placebo effect. He also mentioned weight gain as a potential side effect.
I didn’t take the antidepressants and I’m thankful I didn’t.
Thanks to Adrian Gary for pointing his readers here!
Try telling a parent who's taking SSRIs herself, and has had her kids on them since their teen years, about studies like the one you describe here. I can't keep shut about stuff like this article and I will be the one in the bunch to tell people. But the blank looks that follow suggest it's a foreign language or even dirty language. I have friends whose 11 year old daughter was diagnosed as OCD and put on one of these life destroying pills! And they're relieved because she's so much easier to deal with. Even among my nieces, pills have been taken for depression because my sister was terrified by the wave of teen suicides in their affluent county and was told the pills were the best prevention! She was reassured by some genetic test given them to see which pill would be the least risky. I find it hard to believe the extent to which this mindset has invaded the US.
So I still put in my two cents as gently as I can but it makes absolutely no difference and usually is not welcome. It's going to be a long walk back.
Just as we need mainstream to acknowledge that covid shots are not safe or effective, we need a similar acknowledgment for SSRI's. I know if I told several of those close to me that the Prozac they are taking has placebo effects only, they would feel defensive and angry. I think if we are going to take a perceived lifeline away as an offering of help, we must immediately replace it with an option that has proven to work. It seems reckless not to do so.
There is no option that has proven to work across the board. I've never known so many people on psych meds, and it seems to coincide with direct to consumer marketing of meds and the alienating effects of screen time all the time. COVID didn't help. What works for me is volunteer work, but not everyone would want to do that.
One thing I've found, is that modern meds can have depressive side effects. If I take ibuprofen daily I get anxious and depressed and I had to figure that out the hard way. Similar experience with other antiinflammatories , as well as a common blood thinner. I wonder how many people have these side effects, and don't ever figure it out?
But there is no one-size-fits all. I would just say that the pills are completely worthless. They numb and deaden, they don't cure. To fix a blue mood they will cause sexual dysfunction and suicidality.
I think the pills are worse than worthless. But, I can't say that to those I know taking them, it makes them angry and that I am taking a lifeline from them. They need to do their own research.
I don't usually come out and put it that bluntly, to be honest. What I do say is that there's no evidence that depression is related to some biochemical imbalance in the brain. And I pitch it like: hey, there is now research done that shows that there is no natural biochemical imbalance that causes mental illness.
That said, as I pointed out earlier, ordinary OTC and prescription meds, even foods CAN cause a biochemical reaction or depression. I seem to be extremely sensitive to meds and even foods and I don't think I'm that unusual. For instance, I had a terrible manic episode caused by celery powder in beef jerky, used to supply nitrates without necessitating a mention of nitrates on the label. This is a known phenomenon! MSG will keep me up all night. Two examples of common problematic substances and there are more. This is something I also mention when talking to friends about depression and anxiety.
So it's worth looking carefully at things like diet and meds to see if they are at the root of a mental state.
I think you are right, there is no evidence that depression is linked to low serotonin. I am not sure regarding bipolar or schizophrenia, don't know the factors involved. Changes in the microbiome change the communication through the vagus nerve to the brain and that can affect mood. Depression is also a normal response to internal or external stress. A carried sense of being 'less than' or shame from childhood affects all aspects of mood in adulthood, so depression would be a natural response to negative beliefs. Dr. Mercola believes GABA has a calming influence on mood. We are still light years away from understanding all of this, but we do know that SSRI's are harmful, and not the answer, and as you mentioned many pharmaceuticals have adverse effects on mood.
True story: in med school, I was taught that the suicide increase is proof that antidepressants work! Honest to goodness this was the reasoning: really depressed people are so depressed they can’t even get out of bed, but once they start taking antidepressants they start feeling good enough that they have enough energy/initiative to start planning their suicide. I promise I’m not making that up. To my infinite shame, I totally bought it, too, I remember just accepting that as we were taught it (I was in med school 2010-2014, so not that long ago). The question I now wish I had asked: “so, professor, if *some* people killing themselves is proof of how well antidepressants work, would a drug causing a 100% suicide rate be the most successful antidepressant ever?”
Yes- this was exactly what I was taught.
That’s crazy. It seems to me that one of the qualities a medical student requires is a lack of critical thinking and a willingness to swallow unfounded assertions whole.
Great piece. Are you aware of the recent re-analysis of the STAR*D antidepressant data?
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37491091/
I once went to a sleep specialist for insomnia. He wanted to prescribe antidepressants. I asked how they worked. He sighed and said part of it is the placebo effect. He also mentioned weight gain as a potential side effect.
I didn’t take the antidepressants and I’m thankful I didn’t.
PS Children cured my insomnia.
Thanks to Adrian Gary for pointing his readers here!
Try telling a parent who's taking SSRIs herself, and has had her kids on them since their teen years, about studies like the one you describe here. I can't keep shut about stuff like this article and I will be the one in the bunch to tell people. But the blank looks that follow suggest it's a foreign language or even dirty language. I have friends whose 11 year old daughter was diagnosed as OCD and put on one of these life destroying pills! And they're relieved because she's so much easier to deal with. Even among my nieces, pills have been taken for depression because my sister was terrified by the wave of teen suicides in their affluent county and was told the pills were the best prevention! She was reassured by some genetic test given them to see which pill would be the least risky. I find it hard to believe the extent to which this mindset has invaded the US.
So I still put in my two cents as gently as I can but it makes absolutely no difference and usually is not welcome. It's going to be a long walk back.
Just as we need mainstream to acknowledge that covid shots are not safe or effective, we need a similar acknowledgment for SSRI's. I know if I told several of those close to me that the Prozac they are taking has placebo effects only, they would feel defensive and angry. I think if we are going to take a perceived lifeline away as an offering of help, we must immediately replace it with an option that has proven to work. It seems reckless not to do so.
There is no option that has proven to work across the board. I've never known so many people on psych meds, and it seems to coincide with direct to consumer marketing of meds and the alienating effects of screen time all the time. COVID didn't help. What works for me is volunteer work, but not everyone would want to do that.
One thing I've found, is that modern meds can have depressive side effects. If I take ibuprofen daily I get anxious and depressed and I had to figure that out the hard way. Similar experience with other antiinflammatories , as well as a common blood thinner. I wonder how many people have these side effects, and don't ever figure it out?
Exercise, yoga, CBT can all help with no side effects. People need to try them to find out what works best for them. Also, healing past traumas.
But there is no one-size-fits all. I would just say that the pills are completely worthless. They numb and deaden, they don't cure. To fix a blue mood they will cause sexual dysfunction and suicidality.
I think the pills are worse than worthless. But, I can't say that to those I know taking them, it makes them angry and that I am taking a lifeline from them. They need to do their own research.
I don't usually come out and put it that bluntly, to be honest. What I do say is that there's no evidence that depression is related to some biochemical imbalance in the brain. And I pitch it like: hey, there is now research done that shows that there is no natural biochemical imbalance that causes mental illness.
That said, as I pointed out earlier, ordinary OTC and prescription meds, even foods CAN cause a biochemical reaction or depression. I seem to be extremely sensitive to meds and even foods and I don't think I'm that unusual. For instance, I had a terrible manic episode caused by celery powder in beef jerky, used to supply nitrates without necessitating a mention of nitrates on the label. This is a known phenomenon! MSG will keep me up all night. Two examples of common problematic substances and there are more. This is something I also mention when talking to friends about depression and anxiety.
So it's worth looking carefully at things like diet and meds to see if they are at the root of a mental state.
I think you are right, there is no evidence that depression is linked to low serotonin. I am not sure regarding bipolar or schizophrenia, don't know the factors involved. Changes in the microbiome change the communication through the vagus nerve to the brain and that can affect mood. Depression is also a normal response to internal or external stress. A carried sense of being 'less than' or shame from childhood affects all aspects of mood in adulthood, so depression would be a natural response to negative beliefs. Dr. Mercola believes GABA has a calming influence on mood. We are still light years away from understanding all of this, but we do know that SSRI's are harmful, and not the answer, and as you mentioned many pharmaceuticals have adverse effects on mood.